Eschatology – Debate with Church of Christ Minister on the Law

So Yesterday I had a debate with a Church of Christ Minister (cocm) on the issues of the Law of Moses. There were a few things I wanted to add.

The cocm brought up: Col 2:14 and Eph. 2:14-15. This is an article I wrote a while ago on these passages:

Does Ephesians 2:14-15 Abrogate the Law of Moses?; Eph 2:11-16; Col 2:13-15

First, let us take the entire passage into consideration with all the additions the Christian Church has added to confuse the reader:

11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Let’s take Paul’s statements to the Colossians into consideration:

 Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees [KJV-ordinances] against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

Here we see that the Law is not being considered in itself but in its function. The problem is our sin-our violations of Yah’s Law. Here the Colossian believers are being identified as being united with Christ, who removes the barrier, their sins denoted as decrees or ordinances against them, between them and Yah. The same word ordinances in both Ephesians and Colossians is the Greek word δόγμα (dogma).  Yahshua removes the enmity between new Gentile believers and Yah’s Covenant people Israel, namely their past, present and future disobedience to Yah’s Law both with reference to penalty and to practice. What is being done away here is the age long strangle hold that Satan had on the Gentiles, not the “Ceremonial Law”.

“The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”(1 John 3:8) And having accomplished his victory “When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.”(Col 2:15) [CONSIDER THE CONTEXT] The OT itself gave hints to the saints concerning the exact way James uses Amos 9 in Acts 15 (Ezek 37:25-28 [Teaches God’s dwelling place will be in the midst of the nations; not the center of the nations as other verses indicate but the sense of the passage is that the temple will be among them, in their midst], Zech 6:12). The New Testament describes the ministry of Christ to “reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.”  (Col 1:20)  After the fall, the knowledge of Yah and his dominion over men decreased progressively, until the whole world was under pagan darkness save for a small and conquered people: The nation of Israel.  When Yahshua came, he purposed to destroy the works of the devil and reverse the effects of the curse (Luke 1:68-75,Isa 9:7, 11:9, Dan 2:34-35, 44, Gen 3:15, Heb 2:14,Mat 13:31-33,1 Cor 15:25, Psa 22:27-28, 72:8-11, 86:9, John 12:31-32, Psalm 2). That is why the time of Yahshua and the Apostles was referred to as the last days.

Lastly, Gentiles were grafted into Israel in the Old Testament times.

Exo 12: 42 It is a night to be observed for the Lord for having brought them out from the land of Egypt; this night is for the Lord, to be observed by all the sons of Israel throughout their generations.

43 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it;44 but every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it. 45 A sojourner or a hired servant shall not eat of it. 46 It is to be eaten in a single house; you are not to bring forth any of the flesh outside of the house, nor are you to break any bone of it. 47 All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this. 48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. 49 The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”

When Paul says, “excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world”, he cannot be saying that the Law was the barrier between Jew and Gentile. Here in Exodus 12, we see that the Law provided a way for Gentiles to covenant with Yah and to become a part of the Jewish Commonwealth. The barrier was the wicked lives of our Gentile ancestors who were dominated by Satan, the Prince and the Power of the air. (Eph 2:2)

Calvin says,

“Paul declares not only that the Gentiles are equally with the Jews admitted to the fellowship of grace, so that they no longer differ from each other, but that the mark of difference has been taken away; for ceremonies have been abolished. ”

Hold on! Gentiles were already admitted to the fellowship of Grace in the Old Covenant! Not only did the ceremonies not hinder them, they were directly warranted to partake in the ceremonies upon the condition of their circumcision.

Now the Pastor argues that this must be talking about moral obligation to the Torah. I maintain that these things written against us are denoted in Psa. 139 and Rev. 20:

Psalm 139: 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Rev. 20: 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 

Now obviously the standard by which our deeds are judged is the Law given to Moses by Yah.

At 13:40 cocm maintains that Cows are equally toxic and ridden with parasites and diseases as Swine and Shellfish. He cites mad cow disease as his proof. I replied that this was a recent phenomenon which he denied. This is absurd. The CDC clearly identifies mad cow disease as a recent phenomenon:

“Research indicates that the first probable infections of BSE in cows occurred during the 1970’s with two cases of BSE being identified in 1986. ”

The cocm stated that the earth will in the future be totally destroyed and not our eternal home. His primary proof for this is:

2 Pet. 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men…10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

His problems are twofold:

  1. 2 Pet. 3:6 says that the world was previously destroyed by the flood. But the world being destroyed did not refer to the entire “planet” (flat earth). It just meant the civilizations and peoples of the earth at that time.
  2. The passage clearly says we are looking for a new earth.

Finally, Bachiochi’s Immortality or Resurrection? deals with this in good detail beginning on page 289.

At 40:10 the cocm gave it all away to me. He admitted his moral standard is the perfect state in the Garden of Eden. Yet he still wears clothes! He still eats meat!

The cocm maintains an untenable position.


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