Replying to a Pathological Liar on the Flat Earth; Gen. 1:20

It is impossible to refute Gen. 1:14-20 regarding the flat earth. There is no way around it. Original Truth Movement concedes here that the Geocentric and Heliocentric models are incorrect because of their placement of the Sun millions of miles away and the Moon hundreds of thousands of miles away. That should have been enough to still his tongue, but it appears the rapaciousness of his dishonesty could not stand appeased. Original Truth Movement, pathological liar, Pelagian-Marxist and Ebionite, twisted and forked tongued, faithless and accursed states,

“PLEASE UNDERSTAND: This is about what Scripture says, the way Scripture says things are, how Scripture defines things. Just because the earth is a ball and some other stuff that science has found is true, it doesn’t mean everything they say is right.”

But you just equated Science, and let’s not be foolish, Science means the men who tell us what they have found, with truth. You are cherry picking. Science, has also told us the Sun is millions of miles away.

“Especially stuff so far away they can’t possibly know what is going on out there.”

Oh no, Science is very clear the Sun is over 90 million miles away.

“It is also still seems quite clear, regardless of this, that NASA and “science” do lie about a lot of things and do not have all of the capabilities they claim to.”

So then how do you know the earth is a globe and not a pear, or an egg or a banana shape?

“Like I doubt they really went and even now can go to the moon.”

Oh but that is where they supposedly photographed the globe you worship.

“I still think a lot of what they claim as fact is really just widely accepted opinion, errors and lies. Even though they may really know some things and are right about the earth being a hovering globe, they still do not know as much as they claim to and are wrong about much. Accepting the hovering ball in space does not necessitate that we accept all of their claims about the heavens.”

Yes it does. That is where you got the idea of a globe in the first place.

“The firmament is called the ‘heavens.’ There are multiple heavens. From the Bible alone we can conclude that there are at least three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2).”

Nope. Paul clearly tells us in verse 1 he is speaking about a vision, not literal cosmology.

“All of the heavens are part of the firmament (raqia).”

Nope. And this is an issue you continue to misunderstand. All of the atmosphere and the sun, moon and stars are in the firmament. Read Gen. 1 again, real slow, and do it multiple times, and hopefully you’ll get it.

“We can also call the heavens skies as the word for heaven is sometimes translated as sky in certain Bible translations (ESV: Psalms 85:11; Proverbs 30:19; KJ3: Exodus 9:8, 10; Joshua 8:20; Psalms 78:26; KJV: Matthew 16:2, 3; Luke 12:56; Hebrews 11:12). The sky within our atmosphere is the first heaven.”

Because, the sky is above the earth but in the firmament.

“This is the heaven where the rain clouds are (1Kings 18:45; Job 38:37; Psalms 147:8; Matthew 26:64); the heaven where the birds fly (Genesis 1:20; 7:23; Job 35:11; Psalms 79:2; 104:12; Jeremiah 7:33; Revelation 19:17).”

Because they are above the earth but in the firmament.

“Notice this in Genesis 1:20:

“And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.” (KJV)

“And Elohim said, “Let the waters teem with shoals of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.”” (ISR98)

The KJV says birds fly IN the open firmament; and the JPS and ASV say this too. The IRS98 says birds fly ON the face of the expanse.”

The fact you admit it says “face” there refutes your position entirely. As Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament testifies of the Hebrew,

“The Fifth Day. – “God said: Let the waters swarm with swarms, with living beings, and let birds fly above the earth in the face (the front, i.e., the side turned towards the earth) of the firmament.” ישׁרצוּ andיעופף are imperative.”

The language of the face, speaks of their position as inside the firmament on the side facing the earth.









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