Replying to More Globe-Nonsense on the Flat Earth Firmament from Original Truth Movement

“And even if they are this far, where in Scripture does it tell us that the size of the firmament is limited to being as small as you say?”

I have never said I know the distance. I have never made the distance of the Sun or Moon an argument for the flat earth model. All I have said is they are in the firmament. The only model that fits, and I’m going to say this one more time, the only model that fits, is the flat earth model.

“The Firmament is CALLED Heavens. The Heavens ARE the Firmament and the Firmament IS the Heavens.”

Hold on. You just said:

“We can also call the heavens skies as the word for heaven is sometimes translated as sky in certain Bible translations (ESV:Psalms 85:11; Proverbs 30:19; KJ3: Exodus 9:8, 10; Joshua 8:20;Psalms 78:26; KJV: Matthew 16:2, 3; Luke 12:56; Hebrews 11:12).

The sky within our atmosphere is the first heaven.”

“This is the heaven where the rain clouds are (1Kings 18:45; Job 38:37; Psalms 147:8; Matthew 26:64); the heaven where the birds fly (Genesis 1:20; 7:23; Job 35:11; Psalms 79:2; 104:12; Jeremiah 7:33; Revelation 19:17).”

Using this argument necessitates that the sun and moon be in the same region and space as the earth sky and the rain clouds. I made this argument before and you deliberately avoided it to dodge this damning admission. The only model, I repeat, the only model that allows for the sun and moon to be in the same general region and space as the clouds and the earth sky is the flat earth model.

Now to your demand that I acknowledge a third heaven,

You said,

“All of the heavens are part of the firmament (raqia)… So the sky within the atmosphere is part of the firmament. But shachaq H7834 can also refer to the very high heavens where God and his angels are:“89:6 For who in the [shachaq H7834 ] shall be compared to the Lord? and who shall be likened to the Lord among the sons of God? [A.K.A. the angels]” (Psalms Brenton LXX)”

Yet we read in Ezekiel’s vision that the abode of Yahovah is ABOVE THE FIRMAMENT!

Ezek. 1:22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies. 24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings. 25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings. 26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

And again Gen. 1:7 says there are waters above the firmament. So there are waters above the abode of Yahovah?

“Okay but “face” many times is just idiom for ‘surface’ or ‘presence.’ Something does not need to be solid or even physical to have a face/surface.Liquid water is said to have a face/surface (Genesis 1:2; 7:18). God is said to have a face even though he is an immaterial spirit (Exodus 33:20; Psalms 27:8; John 4:24; Acts 7:48-50; 2Corinthians 3:17; 1Timothy 1:17).”

Okay? You are so dishonest it makes me want to vomit. You’re just saying okay to make it sound like you’re being reasonable as you’re being deceptive and obtuse in the same moment. You can’t read the Hebrew scholars saying “on the face of the expanse” means “face (the front, i.e., the side turned towards the earth) ” and then go on to deny it means exactly that. If okay, then you’re done. Case closed.

“how can birds be flying on the solid face of the Firmament?”

Your use of “on” is the exact point the Hebrew scholars corrected. The correct translation is “in the face side of the firmament” not, “on the expanse” .

“The fact that the birds of the heavens can be said to be flying “על” the face of the Firmament and yet are not outside of the supposed dome and over top of it, refutes that Genesis 1:6-7 must be speaking about water[s] be[ing] above (על) the supposed dome. If ‘על’ must not be used this way in Genesis 1:20 then it must not be used so in Genesis 1:6-7. The word can be used in many ways:”

Head in Hands

Facepalm! The use of H5921 in verse 20 is referring to above the earth, not above the firmament.

Unbelievable and you wonder why I speak so harshly to you. You are a dishonest, manipulative, fork-tonged liar and I have proved it multiple times here just in this article.


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