“You say I am unteachable, so teach me – Exactly where in scripture does it state that the earth is flat?”
>>>1. Gen. 1:14-20 denotes the sun moon and stars IN THE FIRMAMENT. There is one and only one cosmology that fits that description and it is the flat earth cosmology.
2. Solomon stated that the earth and the oceans are in a circular shape because of a circular boundary which Yahovah fixed to hold the oceans in and describes the Firmament as being a hard solid object, exactly as The Flat Earth Model depicts.
Prov. 8:27 “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28 When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
3. The Scripture describes the Sun as enclosed inside of a tent and circuiting above the Earth as a satellite.
Psa. 19:1 The heavens are telling of the glory of G-d; And the firmament is declaring the work of His hands. 2 Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard. 4 Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the Sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course. 6 Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
Notice how the firmament is still existing hundreds of years after the flood.
4. Isaiah the Prophet described the earth as circular not spherical.
Isa. 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
Isaiah uses the word ball in Isa., 22:18 and it is not the same word used in Isa. 40:22.
5. Gen. 1:9 says the land arose out of the water. The scripture never says the creator began with a molten core. He began with water. Which is why the scripture says there is a vast watery deep under the earth.
“The Almighty shall bless thee with the blessing of Heaven above, and blessings of the deep that lieth under.”–Genesis xliv., 25.
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any likeness of anything in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth.”–Exodus xx., 4.
“Take ye, therefore, good heed unto yourselves, and make no similitude of anything on the earth, or the likeness of anything that is in the waters beneath the earth.”–Deuteronomy iv., 18.
“Blessed be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep which croucheth beneath.”–Deuteronomy xxxiii., 13.
6. The Bible describes the Sun, not the earth as moving in a circuit above the earth and under the Firmament. (Psa. 19:6, Genesis 15:12, 17, 19:23, 28:11, 32:31, Exodus 17:12, 22:3, 26, Leviticus 22:7, Numbers 2:3, Deuteronomy 11:30, 16:6, 23:11, 24:13, 24:15, Joshua 1:4, 8:29, 12:1, Judges 5:31, 8:13, 9:33, 14:18, 19:14, II Samuel 2:24, 3:35, 23:4, I Kings 22:36, II Chronicles 18:34, Job 9:7,Psalm 19:4-6, 50:1, 104:19, 22, 113:3, Ecclesiastes 1:5, Isaiah 13:10, 38:8,(Notice the language denotes Yahovah as speaking from his perspective not Isaiah’s perspective) 41:25, 45:6, 59:19, 60:20, Jeremiah 15:9, Daniel 6:14, Amos 8:9, Jonah 4:8, Micah 3:6, Nahum 3:17, Habakkuk 3:11, Malachi 1:11, Matthew 5:45, 13:6, Mark 1:32, 4:6, 16:2, Luke 4:40, Ephesians 4:26)
There is only one cosmology that fits the above passages of scripture and it is the flat earth model.
“So…the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God”
>>>Pretentious virtue signaling.
“does NOT specifically state that the earth is flat. ”
>>>Yes it does as I already stated. Prov 8:27-29 denotes the canvas of the earth and its oceans as a circle not a sphere. That is necessarily a plane interface.
Isa. 40:22 refers to the Earth as a circle. That is necessarily a plane interface.
Gen. 7:3 says that the Earth has a face. A spherical object does not have a face. Only a plane interface does.
The passages that I stated concerning a deep under the Earth then necessarily refer to the Earth as a plane interface floating on water.
Gen. 1:7 states,
“7 And Elohim made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.”
Here we have the firmament and the heavenly waters relating to a plane interface not a round or spherical interface. Notice the waters are not around the Earth and around the firmament. They are under and above the firmament. This denotes a flat plane interface. The word under here is the Hebrew tachath, Strongs H8478. The Lexicon states,
“The KJV translates Strongs H8478 in the following manner: instead, under, for, as, with, from, flat, in the same place.”
Interesting that this word is never translated as around but is actually translated flat on one occurrence! This is devastating because the waters under the firmament in verses 9-10 are said to be on the same level as the land! Yahovah just called the Seas flat!
“By YOUR interpretation you (along with a few others) have determined that the flat earth cosmology is the only one that fits scripture. Not one of the scriptures you cite claim that the earth is flat, nor does it specifically condemn a global model.”
>>>Yes they do and I spelled it out in detail for you.
“You, my friend, are the one that is appealing to the false authority of a man to claim Supreme revelation in a personal interpretation of God’s Holy Word.”
>>>You just took the Roman Catholic position on Scripture in defiance of the Protestant Doctrine of Private Judgment. In order to maintain your position you must necessarily join the Roman Catholic Church.
“For you to ambush, pick arguments, secretly record conversations, and call names is not much of a way to prove your point.”
>>>Deflection. Not falling for it.
“The fact that you have spoken to so many lawyers about the recordings (appealing to man’s authority) tells me that you are aware that it is at least questionable and offensive to secretly record others. In being offensive, we are left with Paul’s example of not offending weaker brethren. If you believe that we are all misguided, weaker Christians, your offensive methods should be abandoned. Assuming your model of earth is correct does absolutely nothing to my personal relationship with the risen Savior, Jesus Christ.”
>>>So the words of God are not important to you unless they directly refer to the gospel. Well then Pastor I guess not tithing does absolutely nothing to your members’ personal relationship with Jesus? Or maybe committing adultery does absolutely nothing to our personal relationship with the risen Savior either because hey the Law of Moses concerning adultery is not the gospel so….Or hey we don’t even need churches either do we because that’s not the gospel either. Why don’t you just retire then and go fishing?
“You say you have talked to hundreds of college age students that claim they left the faith because their professors questioned a biblical view of a flat earth. I, too, have spoken to hundreds of college students AND professors. I have never…not even once…heard that is the reason for their turning from Christianity.”
>>>Well then I know you aren’t telling the truth about who you have spoken to. Just like you’re not telling the truth about how the Bible describes the Earth.
“It is almost always a lack of learning of theological matters”
>>>I’ve written twelve books and a 800 page history of Christianity. How many books have you written?
“not the cosmology of a flat earth vs. a global earth.”
>>>Is that how you are going to try and hide your ignorance of these issues?
“Apathy by parents in not valuing personal theological training is the culprit, and believing that the earth is flat, global, or pear shaped would not affect that.”
>>>Sure it would. If Genesis 1 is wrong that calls into question the entire book.
“It’s a matter of the heart, not a matter of cosmology.”
>>That is again Liberal and Neo-Orthodox Philosophy. Emil Brunner’s Truth as Encounter was a seminal work in this field de-emphasizing biblical doctrine for mystic experience. You are an atheist Mr. Murray and all the virtue signaling and deflection isn’t going to change one drop of the fact that you reject the Bible and the religion you are proselytizing is a cheap malformed version of Roman Catholic propaganda and I’m having the best of times exposing you for it. So go ahead and keep underestimating me and I’ll keep exposing you to the people of Tennessee.
“Christ loved the world – the people of the world – so much that He died for them (John 3:16).”
>>>No you don’t believe Jesus died for anyone’s sins. You are a Trinitarian. The gospel of Trinitarianism is not that Jesus died for anyone’s sins but that “God became man so man could become God.” Athanasius, On the Incarnation. As Cyril stated in his That Christ is One, saying that Jesus died for anyone’s sins presents a division between the Father and the Son and thus denies the substantial unity in the Trinity.
“Finally, I am now asking you for the third time – was Jonah swallowed by a fish or a whale?”
>>>Your question is a false equivalence fallacy. The word that is used in Jonah 1:17 is not a specific word denoting a specific species of sea creature but encompasses all sea life.
The word circle does have a specific meaning and if Isaiah wanted to say the earth was a sphere there is a word used in scripture for that. Isaiah uses the word ball in Isa., 22:18 and it is not the same word used in
Isa. 40:22. Moreover, the word for firmament again has a specific meaning as do all the concepts I have shown you from scripture that pertain to the Flat Earth.
“You see, this is one of many critical questions for you as you make claims about people’s belief in the inerrancy of God’s Word.”
>>>No it isn’t. It is your attempt to protect your social status, your finances and your pride from the horrifying truth that proceeds from my lips.
“I would recommend that you study some of the definitions of inerrancy. You appear to be a person that believes in the Absolute Inerrancy of God’s Word. That is – the Word of God is completely accurate in its statements of scientific nature. I, on the other hand, am a person that believes in the Full Inerrancy of God’s Word. That means that while I believe it to be totally true and factual, I need consider it in the context in which it is written.”
>>>By context you mean culture which is exactly the Liberal Atheist view.
“I let go of the notion that the Bible is a divine product. I learned that it is a human cultural product, the product of two ancient communities, biblical Israel and early Christianity. As such, it contained their understandings and affirmations, not statements coming directly or somewhat directly from God. . . . I realized that whatever “divine revelation” and the “inspiration of the Bible” meant (if they meant anything), they did not mean that the Bible was a divine product with divine authority.”
Marcus Borg, The God We Never Knew: Beyond Dogmatic Religion to a More Authentic Contemporary Faith, pg. 25
Notice how he even used the exact word you used Mr. Murray.
“You throw around terms – like neo-orthodoxy – that do not mean what you claim they mean.”
>>>Yes they do. I have documented it for you. And I am giving you 24 hours to admit it and give a public apology or I’m blocking you and deleting any further comments from this channel.